Why is Rama so inclined to sympathize with Sugreeva? Citing several examples from the latter part of the chapter, defend Rama's and Vali's argument, using your own moral reasoning, then in another paragraph, compare the situation to modern international politics and conflicts
Rama is inclined to sympathize with Sugreeva because they have both had their wives taken from them. Sugreeva’s circumstances, however, are harsher in circumstance as his own brother has taken his wife and exiled him from his home. Rama understands his pain and in order to erase just a bit of his own grief and guilt decides to help the out casted Sugreeva.
ReplyDeleteRama’s POV
All things retain an aspect of virtue. Although his words are taken as Vali being admitted as a higher being, on a different plain than the reincarnation of Vishnu I believe that he was a condescending higher being which is pertinent to the theme of Gods being immanent in this epic Hindu poem. Vali takes what he says as the ultimate compliment, the treatment of being above a simpleton’s intelligence and being placed within an area where he has the respect of the great God Vishnu. Rama’s greater status allows this to be possible and in his attempts to make Vali bow to his wishes and accept death with grace, he also insults him which can be seen as tough love which forces Vali to see things Rama’s way.
Vali’s POV
I agreed with Vali for the majority of the time, feeling (as I have mentioned before) that he was being insulted by Rama. Vali had asked of Rama, “Is it because of the separation from your wife that you have lost all sense of fairness and act recklessly?” (Narayan 108) after being shot with the faithful arrow and neared the end of his life. I do not believe that Rama was acting without fairness or recklessly but with misery and guilt at the realization he should have been more capable in the dealings of his wife’s life. Vali was a proud person but he is not a god. He carries the powers of such a person but he is not of the divinity that Rama is. He is not to be held to an unattainable level as Rama is held to. (Even though Rama is in fact riddled with flaws despite him being the reincarnation of a supreme being) Vali was a proud monkey who was being held to human standards. Look back at Planet of the Apes and you start to wonder why such a thing is even thought of sense things are not held in such a light. People do not allow monkeys to be on the same level they are. They believe them to be lesser and unimportant. Although, in the end Vali accepted Rama’s wishes only because he was guilt ridden and wished to reconcile with his brother and since Rama the great God Vishnu, then he could be absolved before he died.
In the Ramayana, I believe that Rama is willing to sympathize with Sugreeva because of moral reasons that he states in the book. Rama chooses this probably because as he sees how a brotherhood should be like with his Lakshmana and himself. There is no quarreling and it’s relatively calm and they will keep each other safe because it is morally right. This opposes Vali who as an anger issue and lives and breathes on his supposed ‘invincibility’ and wanting to seek revenge upon his brother. That is a predominate reason that Rama killed him. Also it was apparent that it was a sort of ‘imminence’ for Vali’s ultimate salvation in the end, Rama/Vishu assured that. From my moral standpoint, it is hard to judge the situation when it is not yours. I would not like to have a family intertwined in problems and hate for each other. But, I do see where Rama comes from in order to spread his feelings of justice around even to the different creatures. It’s similar to how we can be so naïve to say that animals don’t have the wide variety of emotions that we do and tend to be more up front about. They know what is right and wrong, take a dog for instance. When it knows that it’s done something wrong, it can curl it’s tail or it just stays there waiting for the response “Bad dog!” So I feel that Rama was right to sympathize with Sugreeva in that manner. He felt compelled to help Thataka at first, since she was a woman at one point, but the Sage told him to implement justice whenever and where ever necessary.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of modern politics and conflicts, I would say that it comes close to the Cold War era in terms of keeping certain alliances on different moral grounds. The words ‘Under God’ were implemented into the Pledge to make it look like we had a certain morality about us since the USSR was avowedly atheist. Then there were the conflicts in order to keep our interests afloat during the Cold War, like Korea or Panama or even Grenada. They were satellite nations of the US and many others were of the USSR. The Communists verses the Capitalists to protect our interests and each say we are Just. This is similar to how Rama was to side with one (Sugreeva) and be opposed to another (Vali) so he can ultimately receive help from one in the end to find his wife. Ultimately, the US won after the collapse of the Soviet Union in a way similar to this fight, as it ended like with Reagan, he defended how the Soviets were in the wrong all along and we were right and just.
Rama is so inclined to sympathize with Sugreeva because they both had lost their wives when they didn’t do something wrong. They were both trying to protect the ones they loved but someone miss read their actions and took their wives away and tried to ruin their lives.
ReplyDeleteRama-“’ You are well versed in the laws of conduct and morality and yet instead of affording protection to a helpless woman, life partner of your brother at that, you have molested her’”(110). Rama sympathizes with Sugreeva. Also, Vali talks about how he is a great individual with all of these virtues, but Vali turns around and acts like a very basic individual that acts upon impulse.
Vali- “’We are not of human society, we are monkeys and your laws and ethical codes are not applicable to us’”(111). Vali does make a good point because they are of two different mammals. As monkeys they live different lives with different rules and laws. As Vali said they were given different rules by Brahma. It is their own world and Rama shouldn’t have interfered with their way of life.
They both make good points. However, I do think that Rama’s argument is much stronger. He does show that Vali is a higher thinking individual with strong beliefs and religion. He knows what wrong and what is right. Vali shouldn’t make it known how great of a person he is but then think that he is able to rely on being a monkey.
In modern politics and conflicts this argument resembles what the U.K. and Scotland did with releasing the terrorist from Libya. The U.K. and Scotland speak against terrorism and think that terrorists should be punished. However, when Scotland released this terrorist, England said they knew nothing about this. It turns out that they had approved this action a long time ago. England is acting as Vali. Saying that they knew better all along and their morals were stronger than that. But in reality they are saying that they couldn’t really do anything to stop it. That’s how it was going to happen. Rama is people in New Jersey who are upset. They are saying that England knew better and can’t fall back on not knowing about the release.
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ReplyDeleteI think that Rama is very willing to sympathize with and help Sugreeva because they both had misunderstood conflicts with brothers. Both Rama and Sugreeva were also banned to a life in the forest for long periods of time.
ReplyDeleteI would really say that Rama and Vali had an argument more just a conversation of opinions. Anyways, I was really surprised at how quickly Vali’s thought changed and he felt blessed that Rama had killed him. I don’t really understand how that could happen, but I really liked that Vali was so impressed that someone could reckon with his power and he wanted to know who it was to congratulate him it seemed. After Rama explained that he had killed Vali in order to keep his promise to Sugreeva I think that Vali was a little more accepting. Also Vali did not think that Rama knew the whole story so he was upset that he so willingly supported Sugreeva when Vali was innocent. I think that this could easily relate to the modern situation in the middle east when it comes to killing innocent people. The suicide bombers make promises to certain groups and then go and kill innocent people that they don’t know. From their perspective though they think that they are doing something honorable and standing up for what they believe, but in other peoples eyes they are doing no good at all.
I apologize in advance for the unorganized spewing-ness and length of this.
ReplyDeleteWhy is Rama so inclined to sympathize with Sugreeva?
I think Rama is inclined to sympathize with Sugreeva because sugreeva reminds him of his brother Bhartha , like Sugreeva is denyed of his brother and must cope without him. This would make Rama the equivalent of Vali. Rama would not act like Vali did towards Sugreeva so Rama would not side with Vali. Rama must feel that Sugreeva is in a situation similar to the one he left Bhartha with and feels the need to help him in a way that he is unable to with his own brother.
Citing several examples from the latter part of the chapter, defend Rama's and Vali's argument, using your own moral reasoning, then in another paragraph, compare the situation to modern international politics and conflicts.
Both arguments hold validity, the most interesting of which is probably the Vali’s argument of what gives Rama the right to interfere with the affairs of the Monkey clan. Rama claims that he interfered because Sugreeva offered him help and so it was his duty to help in return. But Vali wonders if Rama is simply thrown off by the disappearance of his wife and therefore has lost judgment. I thought one of the most powerful statements was: “ When strong men commit crimes, they become heroic deeds?” I think this really underlines a potential conflict. Is Rama really doing good? Should he be interfering with everything? Just because the opportunity is there, should he take it? Should the gods interfere? In this story Godly intervention is part of everyday life and as a result there are demons and evil on a much larger scale then we have now. Today (arguably) there is no godly presence in life; people live without ever experiencing divine intervention. Does our world today have more problems the n the world of the Ramayana? Will the world be better off thanks to Rama? It looks to be that way, but we don’t know. You cannot know what the results of your actions will be until you have committed them to history. Rama does not know what the result of his killing Vali will be but it is clear that he believes with all his heart that it was the right thing to do. Is such confidence good for the world? At what point does Rama’s judgement lapse? This was the point that Vali made as he was dying and it is a valid one. Leaving the fate of the world to one person is exceedingly dangerous and I think it was right of Vali to try to point that out to Rama.
Rama could easily be compared to the United States. The United States has always tried to spread democracy and everything we believe in. Wars have been started over our desire to do what we so ardently believe is right. Rama also does everything he can to destroy evil and spread peace. But at a certain point we have to ask, to what point? What is the cost we put on achieving what we desire? Many countries desire the United States to mind their own business and stay out of affairs that are not their own. But we make them ours. After 9/11, we had to go to the Middle East and destroy terrorism. Rama had to help Sugreeva. The question that this chapter brings up is an essential one. What gives us the right? What gives Rama the right? And where does our jurisdiction end?
Rama has such good morals and ethics that he feels inclined to sympathize with Sugreeva. When someone asks him to do something, he feels like he owes it to them to follow through and grant their wishes. “’Since Sugreeva sought my friendship and asked for help, I felt it my duty to help him by destroying you.’” (110). Rama is always trying to be the best person he can be and to be fair for everyone, so when Sugreeva asked him for this favor he did not hesitate to help him out. On the other hand, though, Vali feels betrayed by his brother and sees it as unfair that Sugreeva got Rama to team up with him and work against him. Vali replies, “You are judging us all wrongly, your basis is mistaken. You make too much of my acquiring my brother’s wife. It’s legitimate in our society. Although my brother was an enemy, I wanted to protect and help his wife when he was gone. I could not leave her to fate.” (110). Based off of my own moral reasoning, I agree with Rama more. He does everything with integrity and out of pure kindness. He knows the clear difference between right and wrong, and he knows that by helping others he is helping himself. On the contrary, Vali acts with only himself in mind, and his own benefit. He tries to make it seem like he cares about those around him, but in the end it is all for the intentions of himself.
ReplyDeleteWhen one is running a country, in terms of politics, it is important for them to have the best interest of their people in mind. This is how Rama is. Occasionally there is a leader that lets the power and fame get to him, and he loses sight of his people. He takes advantage of them, and only thinks of himself. He makes decisions only off of his personal interests and opinions, instead of taking into consideration everyone else’s opinions and ideas. I personally am not very in tune with the current politics, so I cannot give specific comparisons, but I do know that there are successful and less successful ways of leading a country or group of people. I feel that Rama’s people would appreciate him, obey his laws, and support him much more than a country with Vali as the leader. Usually, if there is mutual respect and communication, the leadership and government will be much more successful.
After hearing Sugreeva’s story about the loss of his wife and home, Rama sympathized with Sugreeva because he himself had experienced a similar loss. When conversing with Vali, Rama says, “It is my primary duty to help the weak and destroy evil wherever I see it. Whether know or unknown, I help those that seek my help.” Sugreeva had done nothing to intentionally harm his brother, but when Vali misunderstands the actions of his brother, he doesn’t give Sugreeva a chance to explain himself. Sugreeva had been left with nothing after seeking refuge on Mantanga’s hill, and Rama’s duty was to help him. Lakshmana told Vali that “Rama had made a vow to support your brother Sugreeve when he came seeking refuge. This was a prior promise and had to be fulfilled…”. I believe that Rama was right in his actions towards Vali. Vali had believed that he was not subject to human morals because he was a monkey, a more savage being. Rama brought Vali up to his level by holding Vali accountable to same way a human would be held accountable.
ReplyDeleteWhen Rama happens upon Sugreeve, he listens to Sugreeve’s side of the story and sides with him, without hearing Vali’s side of the story. “…While if Rama had come before you face to face you might have made a similar appeal, which would have created confusion of purpose.” This situation of siding with the person who first tells the story is a common occurrence in modern international conflicts. An example of this is portrayed through the events of the Cold War. In that, countries in Western Europe became allies of the United States, and most countries in Eastern Europe became allies with the Soviet Union. The European countries did not necessarily listen to both the United States story and the Soviet Unions story, and then decide; rather they heard one propagandized side of the story and allied with that country.
– In this chapter Rama is so inclined to sympathize with Sugreeva because he understands what it feels like to be kicked out of your country, especially when you are the king. He understands what it feels like to be misunderstood and he knows what it is like to get your wife ripped away and not be able to do anything about it.
ReplyDelete– “Guarding a woman's honor is the first duty laid on any intelligent being. But because you are conscious of your limitless strength, you act dishonorably and carry it off without any compunction as you feel no one can question you.” (p 110) I thought Rama made a very good point here because he is saying that guarding your wife should be you first duty. He is saying this because he is out trying to find his wife now and that is all he can think about. He also says that because Vali has limitless strength he just bullies people around and expects them to do what he says.
“It is my primary duty to help the weak and destroy evil where ever I see it. Whether known of unknown, I help those that seek my help.” (p 111) This is probably one of Rama's most controversial arguments because it could be argued for both Rama and Vali. Rama is saying I destroy evil where ever I believe I see it and I help people that need my help. Vali could contradict it however because he could say well I need help and explain his side of the story to Rama and maybe Rama would have ended up killing Sugreeva instead of Vali. Both of the brothers could have argued that they were the one in trouble.
– This same thing could be seen today in modern day politics and conflicts. The health care plan for example could relate closely to this story. The country is trying to fix the health care plan. And by people trying to step in and fix it, it is making other people extremely upset and they chase out the people that are trying to help out because they don't want the plan to go the wrong way. Everyone has different values and morals and by trying to push them all together at once we end up with the two fighting brothers. We just don't know which one is going to die yet.
I think that Rama is trying to get back to Sita and will do anything to do that and also Syrgreeva told Rama to attack Vali. Towards the end after Rama shoots Vali, Vali tries to ask Rama who is suppose to be a good guy with stong morals would do this to him and Rama defends himself by bringing up all the bad things Vali has done, like try to kill his brother 2x and then took his wife. Vali tries to defend himself and eventuallu Vali starts to agree and thinks it's a honor to have been killed by Rama. I think that this could possibly be like the U.S. and other countries and the way they run their own countries and they way they interact with other countries.
ReplyDeleteI think Rama was inclined to sympathize with Sugreeva for two reasons - and the first one being because he knows what brotherly compassion is like, and because Sugreeva and Vali do not get along, I am sure that he feels bad that Sugreeva has to suffer from Vali's power. Rama also has sympathy because he too has had his wife swept away from him, and even though the main point of the mission was not to bring Sugreeva's wife back to him, Rama has made that his own drive to help someone else in hopes that he can find Sita once again as well.
ReplyDeleteThis seems kind of like allying countries in modern politics, or like celebrities fighting back and forth. Sugreeva asked Rama for help just like England asking the US for assitance in wars. We then help them when they can no longer handle the fight for themselves. The situation also relates to revenge - like a country that seeks revenge from an attack or a mistreatment. The celebrity quarrel relation just relates with Team so and so versus Team so and so and then other celebrities get involved to be the winner. It's a stretch, but it's pretty much relateable haha.
My Rama sympathy quote section is from page 104 also, where Rama grieves and Sugreeva comforts him. Forgot to include that.
ReplyDeleteI think Rama was right to sympathize with Sugreeva. Sugreeva has a sad story, as mentioned on page 99. Rama will forever remember the pain of having Sita being taken from him, and it was a huge pain in his life. They have something in common,they had something that was such a great part of their lives taken from them, their wives. Sugreeva's situation was even harder because it was his own brother who took his wife. This makes it easier to sympathize. Just like in modern days, countries tend to form alliances with countries in which they have things in common with. If they have a dislike for the same country, they will sometimes form alliances.
ReplyDeleteRama sympathizes with Sugreeva because they both have had their wives taken from them. Sita was kidnapped by ravana and tera was taken by vali.
ReplyDeleteVali Justifies taking Sugreevas wife by saying that in their monkey culture there is no such thing as wedlock.
VROOOOOOOOM
ReplyDeleteRama is inclined to sympathize with Sugreeva due to the apparent similarities between Sugreeva’s situation with Vali and Rama’s position with Bharatha and Kaikeyi. According to Sugreeva’s story, he was banished to a mountain because of false assumptions, much like Rama was banished for fourteen years simply because he appeared threatening to Kaikeyi. Sugreeva does no show any hatred or wrath towards Vali, and only fears his fate if he leaves the mountain. In this sense, Rama and Sugreeva have a similar moral character.
ReplyDeleteWhile I see reason in Rama’s side of the argument, given his elevated station as incarnated Vishnu, I agree more with Vali’s argument. Had Vali not recognized the godly qualities of Rama, I think there would be ample evidence to incriminate Rama as a hasty and unjust person. It is important to recognize the cultural differences of other areas and allow them to live peacefully if their nature does not disturb the outside world. Rama became most enraged at Vali’s apprehension of Sugreeva’s wife, which is understandable when his situation with Sita is considered. However, he did not contemplate the social and cultural traditions of the kingdom before assuming injustice. Also, I understand that Rama’s duty is to help those who come across him in need, yet I don’t find reason in his decision to battle a creature that has done no harm to him upon hearing one account of the story. Rama’s only saving grace in this chapter is his divinity. Without it, he demonstrates haste.
This chapter primarily reminds me of the United States policy of impressing democracy onto countries whose cultures and histories are not built to support that governmental system. For example, Russia’s lengthy history as czarist nation does not support an immediate shift to democracy. Our ignorance of this caused some unnecessary conflicts during the Cold War. We also confronted this issue during the invasion in Vietnam. Our country suffered many casualties before we realized that the situation we entered was far beyond our own influence. It involved cultural differences that we failed to grasp prior to our involvement.
Rama is the absoule kind soul. Rama is willing to help Sugreeva because of that kind soul. Rama's father gave up his crown and pronounced Rama his sucessor. But Rama's half brother was named king instead and Rama was exiled for 14 years. Rama express nothing but happiness and humility when he left for exile. Rama understand the unfairness often shared between brothers and sympathized with Sugreeva's abusive older brother. Rama also forgave Soorpanaka afgter seperating him and Site and temping him into cheating. Rama told his brother not to kill Soorpanaka. Understanding and kindness is simply in Rama's nature.
ReplyDeleteI probably would have sympathized with Sugreeva as well. I don't have a brother but I think it was absolutely unacceptable for Vali to beat him into the rock. I'm not nsure I would have gone as far as Rama and left to kill Vali, but I would have made a statement to Vali. Killing Vali for beating something is hypocritical.
It reminds me of WW1. While not modern, the European countries used the same tactic as Sugreeva. When Arcduke Ferdinand was assasiated, Austria used it's "Rama" to declare war against Serbia. And thus the start of WW1 and the bully alliance system.
Honestly, I side with Vali for several reasons. First, I completely agree that it is out of Rama’s place to interfere in what is essentially a family struggle for the right to rule. Rama, who represents a supreme deity, decides the fate of two other beings with whom he has no affiliation, without any semblance of justice. The extreme injustice of the fact is another reason I disagree. Rama takes it upon himself to end the life of one ruler and replace him with one of his own choosing. Beyond, this he does so without trial or any legitimate justification. Finally, the manner in which Rama executes his plan is dishonorable. Lakshmana’s explanation of this is, in my opinion, extremely stupid. He argues that he had to be killed from a distance so that Vali couldn’t try to explain himself. In my opinion, none of this represents the work of a hero.
ReplyDeleteOne example would be the US mediation in the Israeli and Iran nuclear issues. The US acts a somewhat biased third party in negotiations. In a less biased example, the UN acts as a mediator between countries like Pakistan and India or North Korea and the various nations it comes into conflict with.
no, Rama was not right. He is supose to be the god of good morals and basic equal treatment of all in the world. He was acting out of impulse. He was completly blinded by the fact that his wife was not by his side so he accted irrationally. Vali said through 110-113 that he was immoral. I completly agree. He basically met this man and did his bididng even though he did not have all the facts of the story. Even though Vali was viewed as evil, there should be justice for all. There was no justice in Vishnu's acts. Vali said on page 108 "You have destroyed the firm basis of your own virtues." I completly agee with this statment. It was because of his seperation from his wife that he accted in this recless manner. Had his wife not been taken, i fail to believe that he would have acted this way. He hid behind a rock and shot Vali. Vishnu then goes on to justify his acts but to tell you the truth, his acts were rash and impulsive. The god of morals was blinded by passion and rage from the loss of his wife.
ReplyDeleteI think Rama did this because he felt her pain and knew there was something he could do to help and it which there was something he could do to help her out.
ReplyDeleteRama's arguement was an major example of how Vishnu was expressed in Rama. In a way he made Vali look like a higher being then what he actually was and in fact Rama is a higher being then him and it really shows how much power Rama and the charity that he has as well.
In the Political world I would say thins can go along with any war. In a war you have many different alliances that take pplade to keep you honest with the other side.
I think Rama feels connected with Sugreeva because Sugreeva’s wife was stolen as well as his kingdom. This is similar to how Rama has lost Sita and Brahma has his kingdom.
ReplyDeleteVali says that Rama should have picked him instead of Sugreeva because he is very powerful. Maybe Rama will not need brute strength when trying to get Sita back. I think Rama was wrong in killing Vila. He justified it by saying he had made a promise to Sugreeva, but he was wrong in making such a promise in the first place. He could have arranged a meeting for the two brothers to clear up their misunderstanding.
Most modern day wars could be talked out or make a compromise. There has to be compromises you are willing to make to save thousands of lives. Misunderstandings similar to the one between Sugreeva and Vila had can cause lots of conflict. Misunderstandings are very similar to stereotypes which lead to most of the hate in our world.
I think that he sympatizes with sugurra for several reasons. The first being his forced exile. Both were exiled by people that they love, in an unfair and rather brutal manner. The second being his wife being forcefully taken from him. Both men were doing the right things and were misinterpruted. Rama felt bad, and wanted to help in a situation where people could not help there own situation.
ReplyDeleteRama is inclined to sympathize with Surgreeva when he learns that surgreeva too has lost his wife. When Surgreeva showed him Sita's jewellery, Rama was filled with emotion and grief once more. "Even a common stranger when he sees a helpless woman taunted or ill treated will give his life to save her." pg104
ReplyDeleteI feel that Vali was wrong to take his brothers wife. He knew that Surgreeva lover her and his choice to take her was done out of spite, not protection in my opinion. He seems to have devolped a love for power which did nothing to serve the kingdom, only himself. Rama argued that when Vali disappeard ingto the underworld for such a long time, he should have understood that his brother was in despair. Rama displays compassion and love for his new friend sURGREVE. hE WEEPS FOR HIM AND IS REMINDED OF HIS OWN GRIEF WHEN HE HEARS THE STORY OF (sorry for the caps lock) Sugreevas loss. Although I dont feel that murder is the best solution for this problem, I do empathize with the desire of Rama to help his friend.
Supporting Quotes:
"your brother waited in anxiety for a long time."pg109
"you misunderstood everything and before he could even express his relief and joy on seeing you, you belaboured him mercilessly..."Pg110
"It is my primary duty to help the weak and destroy evil..."pg111
With reference to current internation conflicts, I remember hearing of Suddams Husseins killing members of his own family if he felt they were in opposition to his rule. Of course this will do nothing to help him become a more successful leader- instead just making him more feared. The same thing happened with Vali. His feats of power and aggression didnt ebd up serving him will, in fact it caused his demise.
I think that Rama is so inclined to sympathize for Sugreeva because they both have had s similar situation happen. When Rama was younger he accidently killed a man that caused no harm to him, while Sugreeva did nothing to cause harm to his brother. He didn't even get a chance to explain the situation. I think that Rama sympathizes for him because he knew what it is like to kill someone for no reason which is related to about to be killed for no reason. At the end of this chapter when Rama talks to Vali about how he didn't even get an explantion from his brother. Rama says'"When he still struggled to explain and sought your pardon for any mistake on his part, you rejected his appeal.And then even after fully realizing that he had commited no wrong, you let your temper carry you on and on..." This is a very good point to Vali. Vali makes a good point about how he was killed by someone hiding that couldn't even face him face to face. He says'"When two persons opposed to each other, how can you in support one, hide and attack the other?" That was a very good point made to Rama. They both had very good points but i can see why Rama sympathizes to Sugreeva.
ReplyDeleteRama's situation reflects Sugreeva's because they had similar things happen. Both Rama and Sugreeva are not at there home, although for different reasons. Rama is choosing not to go home because of his fathers wishes, and Surgreeva has been forced out of his home by his own brother, Vali. There situations are also similar because both Rama and Surgreeva have had there wife taken from them by force. Rama's wife was taken by Ravana and Surgreeva's wife was taken by Vali.
ReplyDeleteFrom Rama's point of veiw, he is being respectful to Vali. He is saying that he had a high intellegence. Vali, however, sees this as an insult.
Rama was so inclined to sympathize with Sugreeva because he understands what Sugreeva is going through. By being able to relate to Sugreeva’s situation on a more personal level, Rama understands the hurt and sorrow that Sugreeva is experiencing. Both Rama and Sugreeva have their wives taken from them, and they can pretty much do nothing about it. Their heart has been shattered as Rama mentions on pg 104, ‘“Even a common stranger when he sees a helpless woman taunted or ill treated will give his life to save her but I have failed to protect my wife, who trusted me implicity and followed me into the wilderness; and I have failed her woefully.”’ This shows that both Rama and Sugreeva feel like they could have done more in order to protect their wives from being taken. Also, both of them have troubles with their brothers.
ReplyDeleteI think both brothers made a good argument in defending theirselves in front of Rama. As said above, Rama understood where Sugreeva was coming from and made that personal connection from the beginning. After Rama shot Vali with his arrow in the heart, I think Vali finally came to terms and took a look back on everything that has happened in his life. Vali mentions that Rama has, “destroyed the firm basis of your own virtues. It is because of the seperation of your wife that you have lost all since of fairness and act recklessly” pg 108. Although I feel like that could possibly be an explanation for Rama’s behavior, I don’t believe that was his intentions from the beginning. Rama’s main purpose is to protect and help anyone who is in need. Rama defends himself by saying, “Since Sugreeva sought my friendship and asked for help, I felt it was my duty to help him by destroying you” pg 110. However, I think if he would have heard Vali’s understanding and ways of thinking from the beginning there could have been a different outcome. This relates to WWII because if we all would have listened to each other’s point of views, we probably could have stopped the bombing at Pearl Harbor and at Hiroshima from happening. More lives would have been saved, just like in the Ramayana.
"(Rama was filled with pity for Sugreeva and promised, 'I will help you. Tell me what you want'" (Narayan, p. 99). Rama is so inclined to sympathize with Sugreeva for simple reality that Rama and Sugreeva both have had their wives taken from them by other men. Rama has such empathy and sorrow for Sugreeva because he was fooled into trickery when he lost Sita, but Sugreeva lost his wife through a complete misunderstanding. Rama's arguement in this chapter is very clear and blunt. "It is my primary duty to help the weak and destroy evil where ever I see it. Whether known of unknown, I help those that seek my help” (Narayan, p. 111). Just as an evil demon stole his wife, a man of such bitterness like Vali should be punished. Although Rama defended his beliefs, Vali may not have been "evil" like Ravana. "You are judging us all wrongly, your basis is mistaken. You make too much of my aquiring my brother's wife. It's legitimate in our society. Although my brother was an enemy, I wanted to protect and help his wife when he was gone" (Narayan, p. 110). With the close connection to Sugreeva, Rama may not have given Vali a chance.
ReplyDeleteThis situation connects to our presidential elections. Just as Rama attacked Vali, backing his beliefs, both parties attck eachother without mercy. There isn't much compromising in politics, just as Rama doesn't listen to Vali's arguement because of his beliefs. "Since sugreeva sought my friendship and asked for help, I felt it my duty to help him.." (Narayan, p. 110). This happens in politics all the time. For example, whether not Obama agrees with the Democratic party on a certain issue, he will most likely back his party up just because he refuses to look to the other side for solutions.
From the perspective of Rama, he is so inclined to sympathize for Sugreeva for two main reasons. The first is because Rama feels pity for Sugreeva. After Rama hears of Sugreeva’s story and learns about the relationship Sugreeva has with his brother, Narayan says, “Rama was moved by his story. He was filled with pity for Sugreeva and promised, ‘I will help you. Tell me what you want’” (Narayan 101). Because Rama feels sorry for Sugreeva in his situation, and is inclined to preserve justice throughout the world, he is willing to help him. The second reason Rama is so inclined to sympathize with Sugreeva is because by helping Sugreeva, Rama will gain allies in his quest to defeat Ravana. Sugreeva agrees to help Rama if Rama is able to defeat Vali and says, “I will not rest until I find where she [Sita] is and bring her to you” (Narayan 105). The first reason Rama agrees to help Sugreeva comes from Rama’s character and morals. When justice is shaken in the world, Rama acts to restore it. The second reason seems to be an added bonus because Rama never directly asks for Sugreeva’s help in return. I believe that had Sugreeva not offered this, Rama would have still fulfilled his duty to protect justice and would have helped Sugreeva defeat Vali. I think that it is the duty of people to help others in need and Rama I feel is simply practicing this moral to help Sugreeva.
ReplyDeleteVali, however, originally does not believe that Rama would help Sugreeva in the first place. Vali believes that according to Rama’s morals, he would not interfere saying, “How could you ever imagine that such a person would ever take sides in a quarrel between brothers” (105). Vali believes that it is morally unsound to interfere with problems that are not Rama’s to deal with. I believe that in one respect, Vali is correct. Some problems are meant to be sorted out by others and should not be interfered with by outsiders. However, in the extreme case of Sugreeva and Vali, where Vali is threatening to kill Sugreeva, I do believe it is Rama’s duty to interfere because if he does not then the person in the situation who is in the right, Sugreeva, will pay for his own brother’s carelessness and misinterpretations.
One might compare this situation to the very war the US has been fighting for the last several years, the war on terrorism. Most believe that it was not our right to simply interfere with other countries such as Iraq and Afghanistan because it was not our problem to deal with. I believe in approaching this situation more like Rama however. After the 9/11 attacks, I thought that the problem on terrorism became partially the United States problem. Because we are a country founded on strong morals and the belief that justice is equal for all, I believe it was our duty to interfere in these countries and help them solve their problems. Just as it is Rama’s duty to preserve justice where ever he goes, I feel the United States has a similar responsibility in helping preserve safety and justice around our world.